9 Most Unpopular Opinions in Photography.....it might be 8....we lost count!!

in today's episode of the photo nerds podcast we talk about some unpopular opinions in photography I do love the way a podcast app by the way there's it's not official yeah there's no drumroll there's no jingle just talking it out talking absolutely right totally unprepared as always but what we're talking about that I found a really interesting article and that F Stoppers did quite recently and I've only read two of them out I haven't read the others out so this will be new to all of us so this should be quite interesting what is your unpopular photography opinions that we all have them unpopular photography opinions F Stoppers talk about the 29 from industry pros 29 is there some popular business that they have as photographers about photography as photographers I'm guessing I haven't read them I've only read the first two so what do you think guys should would go for this yeah go for it alright I won't read the first one out if anything we'll come back to the first one really contentious the first one yeah yeah and we I'd literally we've only read two of them now let me read the second one out so I'll just read this exactly as f stoppers are printed it can we put a link to this yeah the description I'm sure they're not gonna moan too much and complain are they medium format cameras are completely overhyped you'll almost always produce better quality images with full frame and the right lenses okay they better mind these are unpopular opinions from current industry professional photographers so they're all assuming medium formats are complete waste of time do you think it's because I'm so expensive to buy I don't think it's a complete I don't think they're a complete waste of time at all but I also don't think that they have full frame medium format lenses have any bearing on how good the photo is you know sorry you know not to the overall picture I'm not the storytelling but you can you can get some of the greatest pictures of the last ten years have been taking on phones yeah yeah I don't think let talk about it from an industry point of view so I presume that professionals yeah I mean from an image quality point if we're talking purely from an image quality point of view I don't really care I mean even as a working professional who needs a medium format camera I suppose guys who were printing huge I think the thing I've got about that is is it the saying you will get better images with a full-frame camera over a medium format camera talking image quality yeah well I would presume so no because they're only gonna produce bigger files bigger files will allow more manipulation and more and the ability to print bigger but that's all in my ignorance I want to saw a media format camera with those better lenses on where the full phone camera would produce if we're talking to each quality like those forget those fuji film medium format cameras I tested out they put did produce better image quality than my comment they said that's better dynamic range amazing background blur if you're using them for support trays and the file size is big as well obviously they're making 100 megapixel one now as well I'd be I'm fascinated to try that out but if they meet if they made that much of a difference so Paul anybody who had a long cut that out if they made that much of a difference then if you were a photographer that really loved your competitions they'd surely you're gonna fork out spend more money to buy the camera that's guaranteed to take better pictures yeah I didn't say that I didn't say they make it if it makes a difference I think there is a difference does it make a difference to you as the artist I don't think it does I wonder in percent an agreement with that because I've made that comment in the past aps-c versus full frame versus medium format ace you're still going to get great images with any of those so I've been thinking I've been thinking about this a little bit recently so if you imagine a triangle and at the three points of the triangle right you've got problems yeah you've got budget and you've got got desire yeah but I see if you if you think about we should be buying gear on the basis that it solves a problem for yes we've got weather that's you you want to start taking pictures so you buy a camera yeah you you getting wet so you put your by raincoat that kind of thing yeah you then have budget takes it becomes part of that so what what budget do you need to actually solve that problem so you've got those two things tying quite nicely together but then desire pulls us in a completely other direction business it ups the budget in the problem solving comes is less important because we've just got a desire for that thing it's about trying to find that sweet spot in the middle of all three of those things right in the middle of that triangle sure where that which is gonna make you happy basically I think the other thing is future proofing the thing one of the big influences for me when I buy anything whether it's a computer or a camera is how long is it gonna be before this is obsolete but you know I can say that the difference between a hundred E and me a fifty there's an it's negligible the future proofing thing is genuine noise III was funny enough I was going through some old videos yesterday and I'm putting them up on my 5k monitor and they're absolutely tiny like literally it was that I used to take on it the early mobile phones and it's just like this tiny little box in the middle of the screen mm-hmm and it looks awful so tiny little box yeah the actual image the video image at the video in the air so it was it was absolutely tiny so as we go through the years and these monitors get bigger and they get more resolution hmm then that does make a difference I think with the difference between full-frame and medium format though where you going from like 50 megapixels up to 100 it's not really going to make much difference however if you did want to then blow those images up to 10 foot wide images like we mentioned either either way then that the the medium format does make a difference and so you can blow smaller resolution images up that big but when you're getting close it doesn't hold up no and I like we've talked about the other week I like getting in close of course so then when you have that me you fall back with that massive resolution and you get up right close and it's you think wow this is as good close up is 10 meters away just for actually a quick question what what what frames per second of the shoot movies out is it 25 25 25 well what's really interesting is I was looking at frame race for me from the vlogs and looking at why the film's still use 25 frames per second is because it's a cheapest most effective way 24 frames per second is what movies yeah tell me if it's only got that film you look because actually the quality's not that good and what the saying is is the production costs to go up frames per second is huge hence the reason the films aren't really so my argument is is if we're gonna get bigger televisions and bigger monitors and bigger screens surely one of the first things that's really gonna show its ugly head is stuff like film I don't know cuz I mean with with that the the reason 24 film 24 frames a second works for film is because it provides a motion blur you start to get that natural that we see as well in our own eyes that that kind of natural motion bus you got a car chase in a film and you've got the camera panning around and it's thick goes blurry yeah that's 24 frames a second here at the argument so that was is the only reason that we're used to that motion is because that's what how we've watched films for the energy thing is when you when you do that if you do if you had that at 60 frames a second it was all sharp yeah I think it would be quite jarring yeah if you for sport that's what you want because if the ball gets kicked if a football gets kicked across the pitch yeah if the ball gets kicked across the pitch in that ball then goes blurry yeah that's no good as you want that ball nice and sharp yeah I don't know because when people say you get he looks like sitcom look when you're shooting a high phrase for I think there was it was brilliant because it was it was broadcasters and filmmakers that were talking about it and the arguments the fact that the 24 frames per second is only perceived as being better he's because we're used to it oh no because we're used to our eye and if we actually fell asleep for five is a World Cup with uneasier a lot to 60 frames per second will prefer it that's an argument yeah yeah yeah another thing though let me throw this back at you why on earth do you need a 5k monitor I didn't know they existed by the way like sparkly monitor but because it was it came it it came on the computer that bomb all right okay poison I'm up close anything okay screams oh okay yeah that's an interesting one because obviously I've got two monitors now and one of them I use primarily for printing with yeah and the other one I used primarily for social media and YouTube because there is a different color cast between the two one of them it's the colour cast a lot more green and what you find with these devices with retina displays is the far more magenta in the cloth cast talk about technology are moving on and film as well in it stranger we don't think that maybe photography's come on leaps and bounds until you look at an old sitcom from maybe the 80s or something yeah you know look up Only Fools and Horses it's forever being run on on the sky and the quality is just dreadful yeah yeah we used to watch that thing at all I've got the best TV in the world yeah I even is true the aspect ratio isn't it when you see a four by three aspect ratio on a sixteen by nine screen now it just looks old but you know going back to that Gary that they mentioned yeah going back to that they mentioned if they backed it up as it said anything underneath it the back took why they're saying that full-frame camera with them no no these are just a list of the unpopular opinions I mean I can understand where they're coming from I could not not not that is better no that's not what I'm saying I just think that what it does emphasize is that the kit makes the picture and that's what you said when we first started talking I mean how many times have you had somebody comment on your video I wish I had to come roll out your so I could get shots like you get yeah I mean it's one of the things he's probably gone out by now but I'm gonna mention on the video going out this way is that I think it's the important thing for me with any genre photography is the visualization at the beginning what you've what have you got in your mind for that piece of artwork or photograph to become and then what does what's the end product whether whether it's a print or a digital file that you deliver in like what that's the only thing that matters what sure what's your story that you're trying to tell then what's the end product everything else in the middle how do you get that pathway that you take to get to that point it's completely irrelevant like I think I think he's a really really valid comment and it and actually for 99.9% of people who watch us you've really got to get into that mindset it's a little bit different if you've got a brief you know you've got a brief from a company that you've got to shoot x y&z or it's a little bit different when you're shooting a wedding you're doing because everything's got to be spot-on but or I mentioned it in my last vlog is that it's the image that you taking at the end of the day is really for you and I know you mentioned in your vlogs as well I'm yeah I'm not sure I'm not sure you even even it's different for a wedding because you as the wedding photographer you've got a visual or idea of how you want things to look sure and you're going through a process to get to that final image and it's that how that process works doesn't really matter there's different ways of doing it and those ways of doing a changing over the years as well it used to be film mm-hmm it used to be and then it went digital hmm and you get to that final vision and all that all the tech and all the gear that we talk about so often and so much and I'm guilty of it as well that all sits in the middle yes and it really doesn't matter because that's constantly changing yeah the thing that has never changed since photography began is there was a visual idea of how that art was sure to look and there was an end product I listened to a really interesting video from the Ansel Adams are doing for you with the BBC the other week and he he talked about that and he kind of said that he that's that's basically what he says is that you got this initial idea and then the final print and that and he was also talking about this was in the 1980s he said he'd seen he said I've seen some electronic images and he said it's really exciting where things are going mmm because he did he donated a load of his negatives to a university I think so they could practice reproducing them for non-commercial use and he said that that may become obsolete because of these electronic images that I've seen you know so even he right back in the 80s was excited about the potential of digital photography and just this whole bit in the middle that were kind of focused on so much doesn't change in him it doesn't matter it was interesting the comment that Charlie weight made on one of your videos is you know how he said if anybody's watched it I watched her to apologize but he basically said when you were talking about the conditions if the conditions were right I would come back another day you know then he backed that up with the fact that the reason was was because he was developing two transparencies and you couldn't manipulate the image at all with those transparencies or it was very difficult yeah and that goes back to the number of people that say well I'm a proponent of trying to get it right in camera and there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do but because technology has moved on it means that it's not necessary to get it right in camera and the post processing software gives us that opportunity to then be more artistic with what we do from a manipulative point and it's very good it's where personal taste and personal preference comes in as well because the whether you shoot in raw or JPEG essentially doesn't matter does it like I would encourage people to rock that gives you so much more control but if you're capturing those images in camera with excuse me with it with a JPEG kind of filter essentially applied by a Fuji film camera like about one of the sepia looks or something you're applying and that's what you want at the end product and it looks that's what you've idolized then that's fine isn't it yeah it's just I think it won't stick some micro a little bit is when people say oh well I get it right in camera as if to say well if you want some brownie points yeah exactly and the people that don't see there is now seen some really burbs that not I'm going to say some really popular photographers vertices and what this image is I got all this in camera and yes I mean if that doesn't make you better I don't give it any more credit because you know and on the flip side if you shoot in JPEG great there is another way of looking at it of course is that your camera's a tool so if your current cameras shot at five frames per second but then you've got into sport then even though your camera takes brilliant pictures there's a better tool out there yeah a better tool little shooter 15 frames per second so the point I'm making is I shoot commercial work but commercial work is for small printing magazines and also for the website yeah now if somebody if I got more and more work whereby people wanted big billboard then I'd have to consider and that Radian and that goes exactly back to my initial point about the triangle yeah because of that point yes the problem you need to meet I think that's what the camera is the camera is a tool to get you what you're visualizing than what you want or what your brief is if you're a pro the another thing we're capturing light with with some form of light-sensitive material aren't we that's what photography is writing and yeah and that's that's where how it started and then the print of the final thing at the end that's never gonna change as long as photography exists this stuff we're capturing it with in the middle is gonna change now has changed and we're gonna be all shooting stuff we're gonna attach in this what we tend to use we get any attaching big fat lenses to this that's right in the next 10 to 15 years if not sooner that's the end result at the end of the day isn't it no no these are just 29 opinions well record that one very few what you like as long as you enjoy it and you're not sure a brief where you need that so bro suppose this is why they called unpopular opinions let's go for number three number three this is many how many was 29 29 you talked about one there's quite fascinating though isn't it so this is brilliant I love this shooting film in the digital age is photographic masturbation it may be self gratifying but it doesn't do anything for anyone else I absolutely love that I do because I I love film auntie it's gonna turn round but more and more people are gonna shoot film I agree just be just because it's an event hmm honestly I guess what we were talking is that how you describe masturbation as an event just just try going out shooting with a bit of black duct tape okay cap or take whatever you want to call it event on your leg a mistake just so in other words you can't see the picture that you've just taken and it'll changed the way that you shoot forever carry like it's what the light it's like we're now when I was when I was a cop I'm getting a bit bored at this i handcuffed myself to make it more interesting that's essentially what he's saying to do no we brought this up on a previous pop yes and I disagreed with you and was siding more with Adam but the more I started to think about it particularly with the a debate that we had a couple of weeks ago I can see the younger generation going back to it more and more because you're what you were saying about technology for us technologies new but eventually they're gonna be a generation where the technology things new is is old hat to them do you think the youth of today that when someone that's 16 now when they start doing landscape photographer maybe in ten years time they're gonna be slowing down how do you think they're gonna when they're everything's so instant now in here is an ad buy it they're definitely gonna be fast so yeah that you give an example this is a very popular vlogger and a very good photographer I'm not gonna mention his name but he said on a recent podcast every time he takes a picture he brackets his shots five pictures so two stops two stops either side yeah that's five pictures and he says and he always does that to make sure when he gets back he's got all the guys just in case oh I can't recover that data because it's blown out in the sky what can imagine if you didn't have the opportunity to do that you could just take one picture and you had to get it right and were still you couldn't even see until a week later Weatherly out of your bracket even if you show you film but you could do well yeah but you can do but you're not in a position unless you own the darkroom as well to start manipulating those images it's not gonna harm fascinated and intrigued by the past but I don't want to go back no I mean one day I got tripped up because I said some of the old lenses were just as good as the modern ones which they're obviously not but you say stuff on the hoof when you talking amongst those three but what I was trying to say is the difference between a thousand-pound lens he don't think goes back up the difference between a thousand-pound lens and a lens you can pick up a 50-quid but you know you gonna shoot with the more modern lenses if you can do but I just think I just think it's not maybe a discussion that we'd have now because I think all of us would or deny personally wouldn't but I think in the future I think you'll see more and more people doing it as a it'll become more and more popular as a niche yeah I agree I agree with the opinion though yeah well I agree as well because if I showed you a picture I took last week on a film camera for instance you're gonna look at anything well yes 4k carry but it's not very but it's not very vibrant noisy no you use it what makes you you said a few podcast by me oh yeah – yeah it's not I mean it's not everybody but you do get some people that shoot film who are the light vegans that the desperate to tell you well it's like a shoot everything in camera that's great so what no it's an event it's an event it's awesome smash the screen on the backi a camera go out and take pictures in it it'll change the way you take picture that's fine with me because I can't able to see the screen okay and we've done with that one yeah exactly what they're saying here is the artist signatures that people pay for are overpriced squiggles and they look the same use a pen make a nice signature in scan if you scribble like an infant it love this if you scribble like an infant then that's just a mark you get to make on the world mmm my I'm guilty of that I people people pay more because there's a signature on it no no he's talking about you know the signatures that you buy you pay twenty-five pound or twenty-five dollars or whatever for somebody to make you a signature all right I put one on the fruit of the vlogs which is my signature somebody did that for mean it cost me about ten dollars I don't have ten dollars is ten dollars in code that didn't cost me thousands I've got I've got the same on mine and I think they look nice and when they've done professional people did yeah I think they're nice I'm not do you scientists you saying you work I did yeah I saw my prints yeah I mean I do it in very light pencil because I write like a five-year-old so if you emboss them as well know that you're making your mark on the world he's not got an embosser no no I don't bother doing that I just assign it in pencil put put the the Edition number on it that's it I think she'd go back to that first one because it's quite contentious out and Gary no this is good that's another good one and this is really good this will resonate with a lot of people I'm sure doing well on social media doesn't mean you're a good photographer yeah I mean yes I agree with that but it's no different to it depends what you classes what what what we're talking about is a good for talking about someone that's successful and is known by people and has people's attention are we talking about someone that takes great pictures yeah it snows it social media isn't any different to how it ever used to be noticed it's just another way of getting people's attention and if you wanted to be a pro photographer particularly 20 years ago you still have to have people's attention didn't you you know what that strikes me of these sour grapes yeah dinosaur comment it's it's unfortunately if you are a photographer in the modern era and you want to be noticed you want to be light and you've got to be using social behavior so signups where you know and the people that sit there a whinging moment about the fact that about social media the people that are still stuck ten years in the past I suppose people are getting booked to do talks now on the size of their social media content or the size of their following on social media well I mean yeah I mean if someone was just here a hundred thousand on YouTube I can tell you it's no different to when I had a tea but it's different from when you had ten say yeah it is but that does that make me a better photographer maybe maybe it does Johnny because I've got more people's attention now than then I had before and isn't that we all we've said this before and we we all take great pictures mmm it does sound like sour grapes because there's probably a lot of people out there with as many videos on YouTube that you've produced but they've only got five thousand subs you know so maybe that's just sour grapes then I don't know I don't necessarily agree with the videos thing I agree with the photo photography thing because in say we know what the algorithms of YouTube alight and I've watched people with a thousand subs who do great videos and I just can't fathom it I think that people just pick up on some of they're like okay I think you're right like with the video the picture does not make the video that's all I think it's a part of it but it's not that's not why people watch videos to see because you get that's just a gallery isn't it you know whereas on Instagram they're if you want to be a pro photographer anything you need to be on there and building up a following maybe not now I mean in 10 years time if you're not on there yeah you're not gonna get any kind of kurtal work it's the way the world now yeah there's no ifs or buts it fascinates me what becomes a lot people define us popular and likeable not because I've always said from the very beginning I've just been the standard that anybody ever watches me because I just don't understand it and so you know somebody people love you no no no it's not we don't know it's now it's just and then I see people who were brilliant and the struggling on 500 in the thousand subs you know but that oh yeah I'm not saying for one second just because you haven't got a big following you're not a good photographer I'm not saying that in any way shape or form let's not open that that's all I'm saying is what what what does it mean by a good photographers if it's someone that takes great pictures then then social media has no bearing on that whatsoever no but if you see part of photography's part of the business of photography even if you're not a professional which is essentially getting attention on your work isn't it like then then it does matter you've got I mean everybody in business is involved with social media the first thing you do first thing encouraged to do is will get a Facebook page get people to like your Facebook page so they can see you if you want to be if you want to have any kind kind of commercial success it's you need to go where the attention it's don't you like though everybody's attentions on social media so go there and pull some of it for you it's a it's a land grabber at the moment like this everybody's covering for this attention you dead right isn't gonna last forever no it's not like your obvious a really good analogy a solid yeah we are lucky because we're relatively early yeah I mean we sort of hang grab I think we are all three of us started like putting ourselves out there and kind of midway through the social media we weren't first know we know now that we were five four or five years ago like it's we kind of ride in that second way third wave will probably do okay as well fourth wave I think you're gonna really struggling like it's not gonna be it's just you think it's good do you think it's harder to start a YouTube channel now yeah I agree it's a two and a half years ago I start my youtube channel loads of people watching and there was hardly anybody landscape photography and I'd say there was maybe seven or eight yeah and I can I could think of that I could think of three or four of them in my head and since I started there's hundreds of things somebody codes its you that they watch 60 different value to them do you know what I'm guilty of though and I did it last week I went down to Wales and I made three vlogs because I just completely made it up when I got there in other words I ended up going to shoot something that wasn't there so I use that then as the story behind creating that vlog I don't actually sit down maybe I should do pen write what I should do is maybe go out and make a vlog about this and then go make it and I'd be a lot more prepared I don't touch it swing it one on the end I'll never do that I never write anything down so you're the same I always have been because of what I'll do is it'll take the fun out of it for me if it was a business maybe I would do something a little bit different but no I mean for example when we talk about inspiration this is why I love Instagram and people notice that I comment on other people's photographs cuz I just I'm like you I'll just love looking on you all right looking at people's images yeah and there's a guy is taking a picture of some poppies and it's inspired me to go out and vlog that area and he's great because he's given me the location details and so people's images inspire me to go out sure and shoot yeah I either shoot off camera so I'm not vlogging it or or vlogging as well and I think I mentioned on my first wouldn't you the people who inspired me to go on and shoot woodland I didn't shoot woodland because I thought well I own the woodland photographer he's got a little bit more popular with certain vloggers doing it I did it because I it was a new genre for me and I found it really really interesting I'm not very good at it and that inspired me to go out and shoot yeah I mean that kind of rolls on to actually supporting each other doesn't it is as photographers yeah which I think there's sometimes some egos getting the way don't they and we're not supportive of each other I think that like we're saying is a bit possibly a bit of sour grapes in that they've they've seen someone with a little bit more success however you define that success up there on social media and the feeling a bit blessed for it because I thought I remember I said it here are on a video but is the comparison is a terrible thing isn't it because it just leads to it's the thief of joy Roosevelts absolutely and that's all I think that's probably a touch of what's going on there but you can get over that by supporting each other and in like you say indulging in other photography Charlie wait just released a blog today I think about how we should buy each other's work well because we will love photography like don't just put your own work up on the wall by some by another photographers work the if you love photography then you're gonna want to see other people's work as well and you get inspired by it have you bought other people's work I've got some spare walls yes I just can't afford it the more now I've got some I've got some empty I've had a couple of gifts and I've got a book what about yourself I've dog if so gifted this happened somebody from America which is really clearly not and I'm sorry I forgot any name but thank you very much have you got a Dubai other people's work all right no I've got the wrong I've got the right work I don't even hang my own work images yeah from other people yeah I've also bought photography books I buy a lot of the basil I mean about calendars James Bell's photography book hmm he's a friend of mine as well it's an awesome awesome Sam images I mean you said there's so much you can get from flicking through a photography book of all different genres yeah I just love it I mean it's my nighttime reading when I'm in there is to love medida one delivered though I mean I must be so popular right it's not being delivered her but I just look yeah what I was telling me about last week all right yeah yeah and I know you as I say you're your own Facebook page Gary encourages people to post their images on and they go on there a lot as Gary got these got a Facebook page yeah yeah you got Facebook page other I over yeah thanks coming right um okay that was quite interesting it's quite interesting and what's okay right know that that conversation was quite interesting about social media right 99% of what people call fine at photography as absolutely nothing to do with fine art so 99% of what people call fine art photography has nothing absolutely no saying that not all my long explosion photography is not fine art so I said well it must be yeah fight well the thing is is definition define out all the rough definition of fine art photography is the photographer vote photographer visualizing something in his head and shooting it from an artistic point of view so if how does that person making that comment or group of people making that comment know what's going on in mind nobody now on exposure photography is fine if you think okay so if you think it is and you're visualizing that from an artistic point of view then of course it is talking about you I wasn't disagree with you as disagree Vijaya mr. hi I'm a fine art photographer you are if you think you are yeah but don't forget it says unpopular so that's why when I'm reading it out world now that educating and then what do you call fine out there because I do I've said that that's the definition of it roughly if you visualize something in your head it's like for a fine art shot for me was is when somebody gets to snow sea and whites everything out and all the guys a little fence post going up the mountain because that's what he's visualized in his head if he did took the perfect exposure it wouldn't have looked anything like that you would have outlines of the hills and everything because he visualized that in his head when you were stuck there or go into summer when you can see the path yeah or a poster or a post process and he thought that's gonna look brilliant if I make it high key so saying that he's annoyed yeah unpopular well or unpopular people get really upset about just what you know what I've said this and I was gonna say it on my last vlog and I deleted it it was the comments that you get that people say you're not a proper landscape photography only walk 20 yards from your car and you're not a proper landscape photographer if you don't know the name in the mountains that you shoot it absolutely Buncombe there are people in wheelchairs that like that they can only get 20 yards from the car there are people that are shooing brilliant pictures in the late district who live in America who haven't got a clue what the shooting course and what was it looting – is it what the only thing that ever asked me in life is when people say what you should insure or what you shouldn't shouldn't be I made a vlog once but I never released it I drove back from the Isle of Skye and I just had this madcap idea and I thought what about if I had a driver's seat challenge so in other words while I was driving back from the Isle of Skye could I see something from the car undo the roll the window down and take a really good landscape shot from my drivers although he did from the Isle of Skye I've logged it but I've never put it out no enough I don't know what I did I did exactly the same driving shots driving through the Cairngorms in Scotland last year and I got a telephoto lens yeah and I went against the window held it study it took shots now I didn't put it in the video didn't have time but some beautiful shots Scotland's amazing for that those no absolutely yeah the views you get from the road yeah and those viewing areas they're not just viewing areas some of them are just absolutely amazing yeah it goes back to that snobbery value for me I mean I mentioned to you guys off-camera something that somebody mentioned in on one of the comments on your Facebook page you know Gary's got a Facebook page I know yeah yeah and it was it was in a hide you know shooting birds right and there was a little there was an 18 year old lad shooting with a Canon D 7200 or something and this like bloke stood next to him with the Zed 7 with the big long lens and he says you know what if you want to get good shots you've got to get rid of that camera and you got guys dead seven and one of the guys who comments on your Facebook page listen to this for about five minutes and then sounded him out and said what are you talking about he said he said this lads 18 year old he's got a really good camera he's gonna get great shots and all you gonna do he's pulled him off yeah you know and and when this guy eventually left the guy who was saying he had desert seven and the big humongous substitute for something else and he got all the guys in the house said he's been like that for months and it was really a breath of fresh air to sound sound him out I mean if you I can't account for a bellend but you know it doesn't matter what your shooting way shoot you don't matter if you don't know why is she shooting and it doesn't matter if you're 20 yards from the camera or you've climbed up Mount Everest there's a lot to be gained though and I do encourage people to step away from the car of course I mean it's easy to get sucked into it especially in Scotland yeah yeah yeah you can see so much like you can discover a lot just by even five minutes walk from the car but we encourage that that's what you usually do what you both used to drive – you're encouraging people to do it but you're not telling them that the wrong for naught no no but but not everybody can know I suppose that's the point I was trying to make with my driver seat challenge somebody gonna make a vlog on that now it's gonna do really well it's early I've still got the footage actually and I took some really nice pictures going out this afternoon that's what I'm gonna do you know what I was doing challenge seriously I pulled over on the side on the side of the roads where you're not supposed to pull over I was backing up as well on dual carriageways because I just wanted to get back a bit to grab a shot yeah so it's quite amusing yeah yeah sorry sorry about that I should put it every run from myself but it's when people tell you what they shouldn't you'll be doing all right okay right am so unpopular this is quite interesting we're only on number eight blimey let me know when guys and we'll scrap this if you want but this is quite interesting the vast sort of vast majority of photographers have a massively overblown sense of self-importance I would say that other than the people of that I mentioned to tell people what they shouldn't shouldn't be doing I'd say the 99.9% of the photography community have been completely the opposite and the people who I've met know they've not had a self-importance thing YouTube guys haven't the people or meat are in the field of them the people who comment on videos and stuff like that 99.9% of her mom they're just lads and ladies who go out and enjoy shooting yeah that's definitely because when you meet them in real life yeah I think online there is a lot of bravado sometimes this is the seve kick keyboard worries well somebody called me the last of a couple of weeks ago gobshite Thanks you know we I've got feelings yeah I get it like is you when you if you promote in yourself it can come across like that Carnot but yeah you've got to try and strike a balance between promoting yourself and coming across as down-to-earth I think I try to do yeah but I I think if we were being paid thousands of pounds to do what we're doing because essentially we've been doing these twelve podcasts and not earn a penny and Chancellorsville our money or not no hi I don't think that we deserve negative comments from somebody who's sat in their house to come out and swear at us and call us callers names I don't think I don't think so people can say what they like are they bull is it I think there's as a as an artistic endeavor there's a level of self doubts and self-criticism there already isn't this RS which can lease not cricket though it's no that's part of the artistic process of things so then then you've got to but you've got to try and promote yourself so yeah I'd have an ego to a certain degree otherwise you wouldn't pick a camera up and talk to it know exactly because you know if if you think okay that guy's an ass then you try doing it if that's the answer you pick the camera walk walk along a city centre street where people looking at you with a camera pointing at yourself and talk into it and obviously don't you jibber into it talk sensibly into it yeah so I mean there's got to be if you buy a point you cover yourself and upload a video onto YouTube there's no doubt you have some kind of yeah wish to be heard everywhere that's an ego everybody know everybody on the planets got an ego it's I just can't think of anybody who who is vlogging at the moment that they come across as being huge egos they all come across as being down to earth and I mean I don't know who they're talking about in there do we but know like I said there was some belt there was some balance out there booty baby so you wanna name them yeah I don't know if this is very exciting but just because it's bright and and it's shot at one point for it doesn't make it a good picture yeah shallow depth-of-field loads of poker on that what they're saying is just because you shoot a picture like that it doesn't make it a good picture that's true it's true I suppose got the composition nice to me okay well I can let's just do one more then and then we'll go back to the first one so okay yeah it's very quickly because this is quite interesting oh yeah yeah a photographer's obsession with gear is inversely proportional to the quality of their photography that's that's well-written so a photographer's obsession with gear is what we mentioned earlier is inversely proportional to the quality of their photography what they say it is better gear doesn't make all of you you know I do all right go back to the first one then you call them yeah happy one that guy's yeah this is quite interesting 99% of photography schools and degrees are a ripoff so 99% of photography schools and degrees are a ripoff what's your thoughts on that I think I think that doesn't just pertain to photography especially in this country I think there are a lot of young people these days that are going to uni and getting tens of thousands of pounds in today for degrees that are not going to provide them with any better chances of career progression if you're I mean in photography or if you're going to university now and you spending 15 grand be on on that tuition mm-hmm you come out at the end of it with 45 grams worth of debt when a piece of paper that says that you can take a picture yeah with a camera yeah I don't get that at all I mean that is no to rip office yeah I mean I think like you said with the university causes generally it's an absolute national scandal that is designed to just create continue this system of having the class system basically if everything's people slot into the middle class having done any university degrees just be just be workers basically and make good money I think there's so much so much within the university system now that is entirely built on debt as well he said slave degeneration I was really really lucky that I was I was pre loans so I got everything on the ground because I was a mature student when I went to university and I studied a vocational degree and then it was a lot harder to actually go a university because they didn't have the plethora of degrees that they are at the moment but when you seeing children or young adults going yeah got going going doing a degree and after three years then they're getting the job that you don't need to be degree qualified for and they've got 45 or 50 thousand pounds worth the debt and then what I'm seeing on the other flip side is I'm seeing a lot of younger people we just had a half renovated so a lot of the people who did the work were in their early twenties they left school at 16 and they got thriving businesses going yeah and we're only really good it's a lot easier nowadays to be self-taught because of the advent of something like YouTube and there's lots of online courses like yourself your course Adam it's it's it'd be a money if you want to call it you know it's beer money but you can learn so much about photography and not only that but also you don't need qualifications to be a photographer of any any shape or form I mean clearly from what I the the online stuff that I've created with the subscription thing my kids III do think there's something to be said for paying some money sure for a photographer education I think you should really because you can you can you can be more selective about where you're getting it from obviously you can do it free on YouTube but it's it's helpful to have it all in one place sometimes but in terms of I imagine if you're that you're an eighteen year old you go to university your three year degree come out to anyone with a photography degree and then is that person than expecting are there feeling entitled to then have a job in the professional industry I mean you and I as professional photographers are we gonna make way for somebody that no it's just come out University with a piece of paper we're not are we like it's I've just just thinking if somebody who was 18 years old it's let's say if it was one of my son and he says I want to be a photographer where would a point in what direction will points him I would say rather than getting into debt to go and do the degree in photography go and find a good photographer and tell him that you'll work with him through it free for three years and then have a part-time job on top and so when you come out you're gonna have three years worth of experience and then you're gonna have and you're not going to come out with amounts in the debt absolutely a lot of people's parents are funding it well aren't they said sure if they can fund their lifestyle while they're still living at home and they're doing that for free for three years I mean yeah it's just thing is what you also learn as what do you learn for three years as a photographer once you've learned your photography starts why did they start teaching you a lot of single teacher the photographic skills and they're not it'll be a background business social media as we've said but that's all stuff that I think we've self self taught like I'm not really I'm not really qualified to comment on the photography degrees type of thing all I can say is is somebody like yourself who's built up a business from scratch and I presume you didn't go know if you know about yourself and somebody like yourself who's now got a relatively fledgling business you're not just long in the Tulare and you haven't and you're both eminently successful in your careers I just don't know what what if you do gone to university what we would have what one thing I was thinking about the other day in terms of this is what I think is still a valid degree if you get it from decent places he's going to film school mmm because I kind of wish I'd done that because when you if you as a sort of fledgling or aspiring filmmaker whatever you want to ami with with the videos I make I do wish that I had background in the bigger production so say like if you there are some people that have been to film school that come out of film school two or three years and the the direct in Hollywood film mmm the director of black panther did something similar to that and that's been a huge success so having going to film school and learning how these massive productions work understanding the relationships between the director in the cinematographer and all that kind of thing there's something still I think that would still be a worthwhile yes degree to some extent where you can't get that just you can't that can't be self-taught yes you can't understand all those different relationships that web of things that goes into these big productions yes you can do what we've done and being independent one-man-band I think 30 years ago it would have been easier to go in to an industry like that without that the qualifications means you know people like Ron Howard obviously came out of happy days and the Fonz but got into directing afterwards yeah and and God in that way but but that would make you a better vlogger sorry that wouldn't make you a better vlogger would it I think I wanted the green there's a difference between being behind the camera and being the on screen yeah but that would be great if you were going to go into that field I know that there are the most eminent landscape vlogger in the UK anyway I know his background he went to college and I don't know why they did photography or film or a combination of the two but prior to prior to vlogging he had his own business taking pictures of stuff on tables and that and also did video production work and that is obvious with his videos that he's got a background in in videography sure that he's maybe been taught and I think a lot of loggers have followed his his blueprint yeah I don't think it's even about getting the shot cuz I think anyway anyone good at photography can do that I'm talking more about I how do you create a production how do you go about getting a production funded you know I mean all that kind of thing how do you how as a director is your role purely about the story or is it about the actual cinema rafi as well I know some directors do both some don't do much cinematography so this that kind of thing is you I would have liked to have been able to move in those big probably I won't be able to do now but but in the world of photography it's simple isn't it yeah yeah yeah you're rated on how good your work is yeah so if somebody wanted to come and work for me here I wouldn't ask them what qualifications I've had because that's not relevant so you pay 45 grams per degree a piece of paper that says you gotta write in photography any pictures aren't that much better than sorry now to talk about this from a personal volume you know photography related because I was responsible for employing people in the NHS and I remember having the chat with HR because the Easter safer ascertain great pay grade they'd need a master's degree I said you've got to put master's degree or equivalent experience because doing the 10,000 word dissertation he's not experience and in certain roles somebody who's got three years experience doing something hands-on he's going to be far more qualified to do the job than somebody that's got a piece of paper you know I mean he goes back to the very principle principle of an apprenticeship as well doesn't it I learn it on the job is so much more valuable it is if I was encouraging my son or daughter and that's what I would say yeah get on to the wing of somebody that you admire and say you'll do it for nothing and and and save yourself a load of that anyway you are getting other things at university are you getting the social life and that kind of yeah sharing of ideas you know you can get that elsewhere when I was in this is not a new thing when I was a uni there were people who were doing degrees and I was in 40 hours a week at least on clinics and things like that and but there were some people that work there were in lectures for four or five hours a week and the rest of the time the smoking pot and drinking drinking and luckily back then the parents worked it's not a bad thing there is at university if you think about I've never done drugs by the way this talks about how people have forced this forced opinion about the student loan is it's it's not a real loan as we hear that students saying it had been fed this propaganda basically there student loans not being real loans and that they're a good deal and it's like you're five grams worth of debt how you pay it back yeah you still owe that money to somebody yeah to the state yeah and it's it's charged interests if you don't pay off it goes up mmm oh my god it's just like it's bonkers that our entire system is built on debt yeah and it's just it's a national scandal and what it does is it is the powers that be have enslaved a generation yeah that's what they've done they've enslaved them to follow their orders and if you don't if you don't then this is you've got the jobs you've got a payoff this Julie you've got no chance of being entrepreneurial hmm because you saddled with this debt was terrible hey-oh anyway we end on that I think well I think we've opened cans of worms and they're not our opinion so then we've given our opinions and I'm not I'm not saying the people or the other thing we say the people who are in the middle of a photography degree that you wasted your time here I said leave it work for me you're gonna be somebody else definitely Oh [Laughter]

Author Since: Mar 11, 2019

  1. A wee suggestion for you to discuss https://www.paulreiffer.com/2019/07/photographers-instagrammers-stop-being-so-damn-selfish-and-disrespectful/?fbclid=IwAR2EXpLDmmQAtiuK4Mz3Q0hVTG4kZCJ1xUVGARngG8TKrsmKKr-YMwU-yUo

    I'd love to hear your opinions
    on selfish and disrespectful photographers

  2. I used to teach skiing and mountaineering but due to an accident I cannot drive and am limited to the distance and accessibility of my mobility scooter and as my health deteriorated so did the size of my camera , but still prefer a dedicated camera than a phone

  3. Just like to add my local college teaches Photographic courses using only old camera's as it teaches students pure basics
    with better understanding than using modern gear. Makes the modern student work a bit more and think a bit more.

  4. 38:40 The three of you should do a driver seat challenge and then challenge other vloggers/photographers to do it to…ala ice bucket challenge.

  5. Excellent video guys. As to point #8, I would encourage everyone to watch Sean Tuckers latest video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djtL0hvOYg4. As to the point about not moving from your car, well that really gets my goat, I know people, one in particular, that has COPD that just can't walk or travel too far, and she takes awesome images. The other point that got to me was about social media. Although I live in New Zealand, I am a member of the Youtubers FB group, and I really feel for you Adam in particular on this one, you know which post I'm talking about, and good on you Paul for backing him up, If I could have commented I would but John stopped the comments before I could, and rightly so. No one has the right to tell anyone what they can or cannot do, as long as it's legal obviously, I even unsubscribed from a couple of vloggers that commented as I was just taken aback by their cold-heartedness and viciousness. As for the last point, I totally agree, as long as you know the relationship between ISO Aperture and Shutter speed oh and light, of course, why would you spend thousands on a degree to learn that relationship. Anyway, keep up the great work guys!!

  6. I’m surprised about the comments of f-stoppers questioning the need for a medium format sensor against a full frame sensor. Isn’t Elia Locardi (of F-Stoppers) a Fuji ambassador and uses a GFX50S medium format camera ? Just saying…… Enjoyed the podcast though lads.

  7. Excellent podcast lads. Really interesting issues being discussed. Also the cinematography works really well. Thanks.

  8. A resurgence in shooting film for the younger generation will probably be like the increased popularity of vinyl records.

  9. Not one myself, but I always find it strange when people have a go at vegans. It’s ironic it’s usually this way around, then when they defend themselves they get accused of always mentioning it. Anyway another great chat guys. I discovered today that whilst it’s common to video at 180 deg shutter they use 360 deg for sports.

  10. The camera work and editing is greatly improved in this podcast. Well done, great images now to go with great conversation 👍🏻

  11. How are the tiny percentage of film shooters convince manufactures to start making new film cameras? In ten years my fortyeight year old film cameras will be fiftyeight years old and just as irrepairable as they are right now.

  12. Hi Gary
    Like the triangle explanation . However pro cameras do allow more flexibility in image taking
    More iso, faster shutter speeds, more cropping capabilities which can only be good for the final image.
    I bet Rembrandt has some expensive brushes!

  13. Could someone get Paul a microphone that will pick up his voice? If you turn up the volume to hear Paul you get blasted when Adam or Gary speak.

  14. When you mentioned the attitude about not being a landscape photographer if you walk 5 feet from the car it made my blood boil. That attitude is exactly why I seldom read photography forums or go to photography clubs – the effort involved has nothing to do with the art. Would "Moonrise Over Hernandez" have been a better image if Ansel Adams hiked 10 miles to shoot it? He was driving along, saw the image, pulled over and set up. A good (great) image can be found in your back yard. I have the same opinion of "I get it right in the camera!" – I immediately stop listening to the blowhard. If you take the JPEG from your camera, YOU didn't necessarily "get it right", the algorithm for the camera got it that way. Going back to Ansel Adams – if you know anything about his process, the darkroom was as vital as the camera.

  15. I can see the use in medium format for archival purposes – art galleries, museums etc. But most people don't need one. I'll go further though, I think very few people really need a 35mm sensor either and are spending money on an expensive chip and lenses when they could get very similar results from APSC. And this goes for many that claim they just have to have "full frame".

    Regarding photo degrees I think you chaps are being a bit harsh. It's not three years to learn how to take a photo and get a bit of paper. Art degrees are a study of the art itself, its history, its greatest works. Doing a literature degree isn't learning to write a book and getting a bit of paper.

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